Staffie to France? Non!
Last summer, we had a very successful camping holiday in France accompanied by our Staffie Cross, which I wrote about here (Click to read)
We have now been informed that our lovely furry friend is considered to be a dangerous breed and will not be allowed into France.
Obviously we are very disappointed about this ruling, the more so, as we had already booked the Eurotunnel and cannot have a refund.
For any other Staffie or Staffie Cross owners considering venturing across the Channel, I shall copy the Email letter which I received today from the French Consulate in London:
“Dear Mrs Gowen,
I am afraid the legislation in France does not allow entry on french
territory to dogs of the 1st category (so-called “attack dogs” -
staffordshire bull terriers, american staffordshire, bull mastiff and
Japanese tosas) without a pedigree certificate from a national registrar such as the Kennel Club.
This legislation was enacted to curb the import of pit bulls, cross
breeds of molossoids frequently trained as fighting dogs. Personally, I
consider this is obviously unfair to staffies, usually friendly and “big
softies”, and to the people who own them, and frequently have them
rescued from the RSPCA refuges. The law, however, is very strictly
enforced due to a series of unfortunate accidents in the recent past.
The question, if you want to bring your staffie with you, is that of
identification. What is the breed mentioned in the Europeaan Pet
Passport ? If it is Staffie cross, this will obviously not be accepted.
Another formulation could possibly be acceptable (does your dog look
like a boxer or bull-dog cross ? those are not 1st category).
It is also a question of morphology. Does your dog have the typical look
of the staffie cross (typical “stop” between the muzzle nose and eyes,
proeminent jaw on the sides, thin whip-like tail ? If she does not look
like that, the dog could also be acceptable.
Finally, your dog will in no circumstance be put down just because it’s
a staffie cross - French people are animal lovers too, even if staffies
are not as frequent - and popular - there as in the UK. The only risk is
that you might have to curtail your holidays and bring the dog back to
the UK.
I am really sorry for the bad news, but I would like you to have an
exact view of the situation. Should you wish your companion to be with
you during the holidays, remember that 1st category dogs are usually
kept on a lead and muzzled in public places, and on public transport.
Yours very sincerely,
Jean-Pascal CODINE
Customs Counsellor
French Embassy, London”
Our lovely dog was rescued by the RSPCA from a bad place and there is no way we would ever consider putting her back into kennels. She is a gentle ’softie’ and wonderful with our young grandchildren.
So we shall be enjoying the campsites of England and Wales this summer.
January 30th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
There’s no such thing a dangerous dog, there are only dangerous and irresponsible owners.
February 2nd, 2007 at 9:23 am
here’s another example of a so called ‘dangerous dog’ being anything but dangreous, and an endorsement from its owner that that dogs are individuals: http://lifestyle.aol.co.uk/pets-and-hobbies/rottweiler-adopts-two-lambs/article/20070201101509990001?CLI=16392980
February 19th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
well that was a shock! i am just selling my house and have been searching for a home in france for the last few months i was planning to live and study in france with my two dogs, oscar, a labrador and talullah, a staffie cross. talullah loves people and children and is the sweetest, most affectionate dog i have ever known , probably very similar to your own dog. i cant quite believe i’ve just come accross this now, it was never mentioned to me when she recieved her passport a few months ago. is there anyway around this? at the bottom of the letter you recieved from the french consulate it mentioned these sorts of dogs must be kept on a muzzle and a lead, would she be allowed in if she was kept with these?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Hi Christy
My readiing of the letter is that 1st category dogs must always be muzzled and on a lead in public…. but that they must also have a pedigree certificate to be allowed in in the first place.
If they DO get in and are then noticed, they would have to be returned to the UK at once.
I am as mystified as you by the apparent lack of logic that will allow a pedigree Staffie in, but ban a cross breed!
As you see from my report of our extended holiday in France last year, nobody mentioned a problem then, and I have already paid for a renewal rabies jab this year and her passport is all in order.
She was seen by the vet in St Omer last June on her way home and there was no warning. Also, she was checked at the entry to the Eurotunnel in Calais the following day and nothing was said then either.
I think there have been unfortunate incidents in France in recent months, as in the UK, but not necessarily involving Staffies…. which might have precipitated these over reactions.
I know I read somewhere on the web that there in a big problem in Germany with Staffies too, and the wife of a British soldier came home with her Staffie because local people reacted very strongly to it !
I hope you can manage to find a way out of the problem, but personally I would not care to take any risks with our lovely Staffie. Good Luck… let me know if you find out any more!
May 13th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Just found your website by chance and I must say me and my wife are absolutely gutted by what we read. We have recently sold our house in anticipation of an extended tour in excess of 6 months of Europe in our American RV. Having just lost our beloved Lab we got a beautiful Staffie/Collie cross (1yr old) from our local rescue centre just 5 weeks ago. We too have just gone thru the process of the Pet Passport Scheme and no-one mentioned anything about the so called “dangerous dogs” of Staffie crosses travelling to Europe. Perhaps all UK vets should be instructed by DEFRA to be more aware of EC Regulations with regard to the scheme. We agree with many Satffie owners that they are loving and loyal, and we agree with Rich Boakes’ comments on owners. Anyone who goes thru the time, effort and expense of the Pet Passport Sheme must surely be considered responsible owners.
We now have the dilemma of either taking a chance on the trip as his passport simply says “cross breed” even though facially he resembles a staffie, or making the heart wrenching decision of returning him.
How where you informed? What sort of checks would we expect to get IF we decide to take him with us.
May 13th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Hi Rob
Firstly, I am sorry to hear of the loss of your Labrador.
Secondly, I think you might have good fortune on your side in that the passport describes your newly rescued dog merely as ‘cross breed’. Our vets had a conference to decide if it would be possible to change our dog’s passport to avoid the reference to ‘Staffie’ but they decided that they could not because she failed the test on the points made by the French consulate.
As you will have seen, we had no problems last year. We went to France via Euro-tunnel and the only check made on the outward journey was on the gas bottles. During our stay, we were welcomed everywhere and everyone commented on our particularly polite and docile dog.
The vet at St Omer who inspected the dog before our return was happy to accept her, and nothing was said at Calais when she had her final check before embarkation onto the train.
Because we had planned to go to Germany this year, we did a random search just to ensure there would not be a problem there. What we found worried us, so we contacted the ‘Caravan Club’ who also came up with the bad news about France.
I then contacted the French Consulate and received the letter contained in the above posting. We too were staggered.
Finally, we decided that we could not risk losing our lovely companion, despite the assurance that the dog would not be taken from us, and we cancelled the holiday.
If you get any updated information, please let us know. We have many friends in France and a rescinding of this strange ruling would mean we could go and visit them again.
Meanwhile, good luck in the future!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
[…] Our own gentle Staffie X was banned from France earlier this year, simply because we could not produce evidence of pedigree (impossible for a rescued mongrel!) […]
July 31st, 2007 at 2:01 pm
I have been trawling through web sites trying to get a definative answer on whether our cross will be allowed on our 2 week holiday booked for 5 weeks time. I am interested in the email you received from the French Embassy as I have also found a letter saying that Staffies are not category 1 in France. This is an official response saying that the inclusion of staffies in the 99 ruling was a mistake as they were confused with American Staffs.
We are planning to take our dog but are nervous as to whether he will be deported!! I take it from your comments that it was not until you returned home that you were informed that he was banned, or has anyone ever been forcibly removed from France because of their dog? What is the worst that can happen? if we believe that they will not “put the dog down”?
our dogs passport states “cross breed” with no ref to Staffie, he does not have a typical “stop” between the muzzle nose and eyes, he does have a prominent jaw but nowhere near a pure staff, his tail is thicker, he is taller and less stocky but he is Brindle.
Any advice or help appreciated
Linda
July 31st, 2007 at 2:34 pm
With a bit of luck, Your dog’s passport description will mean you are in the clear! Fingers crossed anyway! I think if we could have had the passport changed, we might have taken the risk…. the letter did, after all say they would NOT destroy the dog, but deport her (and therefore us too) instead
However, I was sufficiently frightened by the letter from the consulate to change our plans. We had a great holiday in the UK and the French economy has lost out.
Good luck with your hols, let us know how you get along, please
July 31st, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Linda again
Having reread the note from Jean-Pascal Codine, he seems to indicate in the last paragraph that you can travel with a cat 1 dog, or am I misreading? Also what would happen if the Gendarmerie were to stop you, would you be escorted to the port or would the dog be siezed. Any idead where I can find out more information and also do you have Jean-Pascal’s email address so that I can contact him directly with specific questions? This is so frustrating!!!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Sorry, Linda, because of a complete computer crash after the email was received, I cannot access the email address, however, I’m sure that snail mail might have a result, especially if you write a letter and ask for an email reply (to fit into your time scale requirements)…. I’d be really interested to hear any news you might bring up as I really would like to visit my French friends again soon!
August 1st, 2007 at 10:10 am
It really is a pain!
I can’t understand how you had no problems at all whilst in France and then when you were home you received the bad news, was it the French vet who passed on details etc?. I am concerned as Cash looks more like a Staffie than your dog. He has more of a staffie body but is more slight, his face is like yours slim and not broad jawed, but he is brindle which makes hime stand out.
If I knew that we would just get asked to take the dog home if we were stopped I would risk it but no one can tell me what would happen. You hear so many bad stories, and like you Cashie is rescue and I would never put him in kennels so we now need to look at gettying a house sitter so more expense
I will keep you posted on what happends
Regards
Linda
August 13th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
So if I was planning on exporting a pitbull from the uk I could not take it to France?
What method would you reccomend for exporting a banned dog in order to save it’s life?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Dear Lesley
Well after weeks of frustration and pulling my hair out I seem to have the answer. I copy the emails below from the French Embassy which states categorically that Staffies are NOT classed as dangerous. We visited the vet this morning and he is writing us a letter which states that Cashie does not have features similar to Cat 1 and 2 dogs, i.e. Pitbulls.
I hope this helps you and you will be able to visit your friends in the future, although apparently Sarcozy is planning to ban Staffies at some point ( not sure why!)
In response to Malcolm X my understanding is that Pit bulls are definately not allowed but you can follow this up with the French embassy.
Email trail below
Dear Linda,
I had the answer from the french ministry of agriculture who said that the Staffordshire Bull terrier is not considered as a dangerous dog.
However, if you want to be able to bring your dog to France, you will need to have with you a certificate delivered by a veterinary or a judge’s breed recognized by the Fédération Cynologique Internationale (World canine federation) (regarding arrêté du 27 avril 1999) saying that regarding his physical aspects, the animal is not assimilated to a dog from the first or the second category (dangerous dogs).
Regards,
Juliette
——————————————————————————–
De : Linda Ashcroft [mailto:linda.ashcroft@btinternet.com]
Envoyé : mercredi 22 août 2007 14:07
À : ARNAUD Juliette
Objet : Re: URGENT query re holidaying in France with pet dog
Juliette
Thank you so much for helping us out on this, we really appreciate it and your quick replies.
Regards
Linda
—– Original Message —–
From: ARNAUD Juliette
To: Linda Ashcroft
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: URGENT query re holidaying in France with pet dog
Dear Linda,
I understand now the problem. To be sure I understand well, the fact is you don’t know exactly which breed is your dog and which famlily he could be identified and you fear that he could be identified as a Staffordshire Bull terrier which seems to be considered as dangerous. I understand that the informations I gave you are incorrect regarding the letter from the “ministère de l’intérieur”. On that fact, even if your dog will be assimilated to a Staffordshire Bull terrier he should not be considered as dangerous.
I will check these informations with the french ministry of agriculture and let you know as soon as I can.
Juliette
——————————————————————————–
De : Linda Ashcroft [mailto:linda.ashcroft@btinternet.com]
Envoyé : mercredi 22 août 2007 09:12
À : ARNAUD Juliette
Objet : URGENT query re holidaying in France with pet dog
Dear Juliette
Thank you for your quick response. I am afraid I am still confused over this issue. The information you listed is incorrect. British Staffordshire Bull terriers are not known as pitbulls and never have been, these are American Bull Terriers. They are about 3 times as big as British Staffordshire Bull terriers and are actually a different family. I know that in the 1971 Dangerous dogs act the breed British Staffordshire Bull terrier was mis quoted (please see below the letter from the French Ministere l’interieur) and are not actually on the dangerous dogs list. I am very confused as to why there is so much conflicting information, it seems that there is a lot of confusion around this act.
Our dog Cash as I stated is a rescue dog, we have had him for 4 years now. As such we are unsure of his actual cross breed. He does not have the defining characteristics of a Staffordshire Bull terrier he has a smaller frame, is taller but more slight, does not have the “stop” between the muzzel and his jaw is not as prominent as a staffie, the main thing that could be construed as Staffordshire Bull terrier is his colour which is Brindle, this colour is more common in Boxers.
As I previously indicated the British Consulate informed me that British Staffordshire Bull terriers are not on the list, please see email attached. Also we have been informed that if we do take cash with us and he is siezed he will not be put down, this contradicts your email below.
Sorry to be so insistent but obviously he is a part of our family and we do not want anything to happen to him, but also we are planning to move to France to start up a business and if we are unable to take Cash with us this will not be possible. Is there any way that we can get him seen by someone to aquire a Visa etc to ensure that no confusion arises when we are in France? When our vet issued his passport he informed us that Cash would be fine to travel in France so we went ahead with the expense, injections etc.
I am sure you can understand our frustration as our whole immediate future depends on this outcome.
I await your repsonse and appreciate your help on this matter
Linda
Re: Staffies
http://perso.orange.fr/aipm/loi%20chiens%20dangereux.htm
Rectificatif sur le Staffordshire Bull Terrier :
Le Staffordshire Bull Terrier dit « Staffie » fut un temps inclus dans la loi de janvier 99 par erreur du ministère de l’agriculture, en le confondant avec le Staffordshire Terrier, race qui n’existe plus depuis 1972 ! Suite à plusieurs courriers adressés au Ministère, le jugement est tombé ;
Le Staffordshire Bull Terrier ne fait pas partie des chiens dits « dangereux ».
Le Journal Officiel est là pour l’attester :
Le Staffordshire Bull Terrier ne fait plus partie de la deuxième catégorie (numéro du 5 février 2001, page 774.)
http://clubcaninrochois.free.fr/Reglementation/staffordshire.html
Rectificatif sur le Staffordshire Bull Terrier :
Le Staffordshire Bull Terrier dit « Staffie » fut un temps inclus dans la loi de janvier 99 par erreur du ministère de l’agriculture, en le confondant avec le Staffordshire Terrier, race qui n’existe plus depuis 1972 ! Suite à plusieurs courriers adressés au Ministère, le jugement est tombé ;
Le Staffordshire Bull Terrier ne fait pas partie des chiens dits « dangereux ».
Le Journal Officiel est là pour l’attester :
Le Staffordshire Bull Terrier ne fait plus partie de la deuxième catégorie (numéro du 5 février 2001, page 774.)
Les différents Terriers de « type Bull » :
- L’English Bull Terrier
- Le Staffordshire Bull Terrier (dit Staffie)
- L’American Staffordshire Terrier (dit Am’Staff) chien de 2ème catégorie
- L’American Pit Bull Terrier (dit Pit bull) chien de 1e catégorie
The British Consulate wrote
Dear Mrs Ashcroft,
hank you for your email. Although I have no specific contacts with the French on this matter, my understanding is that Staffordshire bull-terriers are not considered to be dangerous. I therefore advise you to bring all Cashie’s ID with you and keep him muzzled.
Kind Regards
Danielle Ducos
Pro-Consul
October 20th, 2007 at 9:15 am
The British Embassy in France has now given clearer info, and sadly if confirms what I was told earlier. Your Staffie must be a pedigree dog to be allowed in. Sadly, Staffie crosses fall into the first category.
More info here: http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1091037661815
October 20th, 2007 at 9:19 am
And also clear info from the French Embassy:
http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Importation-of-animals-into-France.html
October 29th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
Hi Lesley
So after all that running around what are you going to do? I have one staffie with pedigree and one staffie cross that I’m planning on taking to France in November and I’m worried about what will happen to the staffie cross - their advice seems to be - if in doubt, don’t. My staffie cross is also brindle but her facial features are not quite staffie. If you had a vet certify them as “cross breed” as opposed to “staffie cross” I wonder if that would help.
February 25th, 2008 at 9:21 am
finally the french do something i like………..probably reduce the amount of British chavs going to France as well.
Why anyone would want an attach dog as a pet is beyond me, unless you have a need to risk having someones child or dog killed by these things.
“There’s no such thing a dangerous dog, there are only dangerous and irresponsible owners”
What an utter load of rubbish. These dogs are killing machines, when they crack, there isnt anything you can do. You keep trying to convince yourself your wee darling is a pet, but one day it may just turn on someone, then how would you feel?
March 1st, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Can any one help us , we have two 10year old spayed Staffie bitches with no pedigree papers We have traveled through France to Spain for the last six years and have a vet in Bourges who has not mentioned anything to us about this problem they even said see you next time. Their Pet Passports state Staffiordshire Bull Terriers We plan to do the same this April but we have no proof of Pedgree what do we do now. Will we be forced to travel by the much more expensive route Plymouth to Santander/ Bilbao.Thus missing out on the beauties of France. HELP!
March 2nd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
The above comment is totally ridiculous and made in such an unnecessarily rude way.
I work in a large London dogs home and have I’m sure been exposed to far more Staffordshire Bull Terriers and crosses than yourself and they are beautiful, loving companions and so eager to please their owners. They are nick-named ‘nanny dogs’ because they are amazing with children. I agree though that they have a temperament where if they are greatly encouraged and mistreated they can be agressive, especially to other dogs, but this is due to bad ownership.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
sarah,
a perfectly sane country has stated that these dogs are attach dogs……….because they are. I have personally seen a loving bull terrier attach another dog (and continue to attack). It has been very well treated by the owner.
A one off i hear you all cry……….
On a more positive statement from me, I dont think its right they ban certain (most) cross versions, as this crossing is breading out the aggressive attach instinct of the terrier.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
i need to learn how to spell attack
March 8th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Thanks for your response and I agree that the ban on certain cross breeds needs to be reconsidered.
I am a Staffordshire Bull Terrier owner and love the breed but I am in no way blinkered to the fact that they can be vicious dogs. In my extensive experience however so can many dogs of various other breeds- spaniels for example are notoriously bad at guarding their food and displaying high levels of possession and I have witnessed several vicious attacks on their handlers. SBT’s have such a bad reputation which I truly believe is down to irresponsible ownership and breeding.
Just to address one of your points about why anyone would want to own an attack dog… PLease bear in mnd that the umbrella term ‘attack dog’ is what they were originally bred for but this has deminished and they are successfully owned as pets who don’t attack. Collie’s are ‘working’ dogs but many people own them in a non-working capacity, the small terriers (cairns etc) are ‘rat dogs’ but are likewise rarely used for this. The original reasons for breeding dogs are not so needed now so all breeds have become companion and pet dogs.
March 26th, 2008 at 3:24 am
[…] I hope this information might help anyone considering taking their pet dog abroad with them on holiday this year. It follows last year’s ruling in France […]
April 8th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Me & my partner are travelling to france with our staffordshire bull terrier & Rottweiler in September.
Our Staffy has no papers, from what i can gather if we get our vets to sign something official we will be ok to take her on holiday, she is a full staffy. What do you reckon our chances are? Again we have already got the passports & then find all this crap out, about staffies being dangerous in France.
April 20th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
PLEASE HELP - ANYONE: Firstly (re Linda 31 July 2007), I would like to ask, Linda, if you ever did go to France with your “Cross Breed” dog. We rescued a staff cross called Charlie last August 2007, and after leaving him in kennels for our pre-planned holiday we returned to find a very sad dog indeed. So we vowed never to leave him again. We sold our small car and bought an estate car, thule roof box, camping gear. We got Charlie sorted our with his passport. On the day we collected the passport we were given an internet printout with all the blurb!!!!! We had by then already booked on the Eurotunnel for beginning of May 08. Oh dear. What to do. I think we will just risk it. Charlie is fawn colour all over. His passport did say “Staffordshire Terrier Cross”, but got the vet to change it to “Terrier Cross”. Perhaps we should go back tomorrow and ask for it to say “Cross Breed”?
We also got our vet to write a certificate saying: “To whom it may concern:
Re Charlie Porteous, 5 y.o. Cross breed dog. ID no 981000002098495
I have examined this dog today and believe it to be a crossbreed. The legs and tail are longer than the breed standard for a Staffordshire bull terrier. The head is also much narrower than a Staffordshire terrier and the dog is not as well muscled as is normal for the breed. The characteristics and temperament of this dog are not in line with the type known as the Staffordshire terrier.”
Please can anyone update me with current news?
Linda 31 July 2007
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Hi anyone,
whats the latest news on the Staffie being accepted into France ???
Can a Staffie be accepted even if we have no pedigree papers, he was from the RSPCA